Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby wa_desert_rat » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:32 am

The focus of this website has always been to use big box bikes as a way to get back into cycling, to introduce others to cycling and to test different types of bikes. I bought a Deception 29er because I wanted to see whether a 29er would be a good match for me without spending $1200 on a bike that I might not like.

If your cycling dreams extend only to riding and upgrading your big box bike then that's not altogether bad. It's a hobby, after all. We don't argue the merits of the frames here so much as talk about what you could do with them and a little more money. They aren't professional rider frames but they're good enough to get you across most trails. And if they're a little heavy, well, many of us here are trying to lose weight anyway and since burning calories is one way to do that then riding a slightly heavier bike is a not really a handicap.

Focus on riding, learning new skills, exploring new places.

And having fun.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby Falkon45 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:34 am

Great point WDR. Another point, is that the frame issue isn't just at big box bikes. In reality, very few people push the bikes as hard as they can. There was a kid somewhere in south america (don't remember where, but there's a video on pink bike, where he downhills a BBB). It went the distance, but did break after about the 3rd or 4th trip over a huge jump. Konas are known to break quite often as well. Someone I follow on Instagram had a reileigh that the frame cracked on him.. Twice... In 6 months. This is with a lot of single track, and XC runs almost every weekend. No one had really pushed these frames to their limits, but assume that they won't last. I guess a free of us here will just have to treat the theory.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby Purple Haze » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:18 pm

I am living proof you can have bbb that can perform almost all task.I will not do jumps at 40 plus m.p.h because of the inherent danger associated with it,but I will do downhill courses that are halfway safe and have no reservations about the Blackcomb coming apart in midair or landing.I live here in mountainbike country and ride the wheels off this thing almost three times a week when I have time and it has never failed me yet.I aint no slouch when it comes to testing the limits of this bike but, I am no dummy either in thinking I could be a extreme sports poster boy.If your talking about competition sharky in a skilled rider then most everyone on this and the other forum don't even come close because I have seen those guys here in Switzerland and they attend special training programs.Those dudes live and breathe mountainbiking 24/7 and were very talented from the time the training wheels came off.The point is they could make the cheapest huffy rip trails like a motocross bike.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby Falkon45 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:22 am

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/261369/

Here's the video of the guy with the BBB on a downhill trail. Homie was serious. And he's been riding that bike for a while, as you can see.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby 6sharky9 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:41 pm

No problems with upgrading like i say but that rider is pretty lucky it was just a crack and not a full break from doing what ever it was he was doing with it...Like i say i know they dont just fall apart with some somewhat spirited riding but pushing it like an "experienced" rider does and its a trip to the ER waiting to happen...Consider that guy lucky is all...its not testement to everyone will be ok pushing a bbb like he did.

I come from a motorcross and bmx racing background but im 47 years old now and dont have the mind set to push my luck like i used to and certainly wouldnt attempt that on a bbb frame...Would i ride like i do now with one..yes, i would but ,if i move up a notch or to in bravery ,i most certainly wouldnt...I even have doubts about my current motobecane frame standing up to what i used to could dish out and have common sense enough to not risk it so i can say my cheap online bike frame is as good as a 400 dollar top brand frame because i know its not.

Im fine with upgrading most any bbb and getting out there to have fun but, within realistic parameters as all should be aware of...Again, bolting on pro parts to a 50 dollar frame doesnt make it worthy of what top brand frames are designed and engineered to handle...Its only going to take one trip to the ER for someone to realize that and hopefully its not something serious.

The guy in the video WANTS a top brand name bike to ride...hes not riding his bbb like a bull claiming this bike is just as good and he wont waste his money on some rip off name brand bike..Did you see the comments below the video?

If someone thinks they are that good ,then do yourself a favor and put those parts you spent money on to a better engineered frame...You might actually recognize it as being a better performer as well being they are designs meant to fullfill experienced riders and not the average joe who rides with the family on a budget.

People on other forums cant fathom the thought of someone riding a bbb bike but they also dont understand not everyone may ride as hard as them and cant comprehend a bbb can be reliable to a certain degree like some of us here do..So they get this attitude and dont even care to hear that the rider just wants to get outdoors and ride a little and dont plan to do 5ft drop offs and jump 10ft in the air to land on a flat surface..So they dont get it, but i do and thats why im here...so dont take this as a bashing of a bbb, because its not...Ive stood up for this site on those snob sites but, im not going to tell someone its ok to ride a bbb with a small fortune in upgrades like an experienced rider would on a top brand frame design... its not safe..period.

If you dont or cant understand what im saying ,i cant really do anymore to explain it...Just hope you are safe and we dont hear about how your "bravery" led you to the ER because of a structure failure on a 50 dollar frame...Best of luck to you.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby Falkon45 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:38 pm

Well, it's all in how you want to ride. Note, I know I'm a fool for wanting to downhill my blackcomb. I fully expect the frame to break. I just want to know if it will make it a season, or one pass. But no one here really seems to go pass cross country except for myself and Irish when he was here. I'm trying to test limits on my frames. Note, none of my hardtails will be ridden nearly as hard. I know their place. Roots and small rock gardens at best.

And I know that kid wanted a better bike. But his bike took a ton of abuse before it finally ate it. I've seen konas, specialized, and various other downhill bikes do the same thing. The video shows that it will eventually break. But not as soon as the other guys think. All frames will break when ridden hard. The thing is, how soon, and is it under warranty. You will get hurt, regardless. So, he's just as lucky he didn't break his neck on that bike, as he is on any other bike.

This is what people tend to forget. So I don't think you are bashing, but I do think that the view is skewed.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby 6sharky9 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:31 pm

My point is, a frame designed to take what the pros can dish out are less likely to break than a bbb frame...If you search "broken mountain bike frame" you will see a ton of name brand frames busted and maybe one bbb frame...But, we dont have the type of riders riding a bbb like those on top brands so i would imagine it would be less likely to see a busted bbb frame anyhow.

This does not however mean a bbb frame is just as strong or capable. And more so with bbb full suspension models...If i had to chose a fully hopped up built to the hilt anything on a bbb model, it would certainly be a hardtail model and one with the best features possible like replaceable derailleur hangers and 1-1/8 Stems and disc brakes all the way around and even then i would hesitate to push my luck.

You have some amazing parts, Falkon...in a way im jealous of alot of what you have (parts wise) but one day id love to see you put those parts on a worthy frame and experience the difference for yourself...Especially something full suspension...If anything, for the difference in performance and feel when you ride...we can leave strength out for this example then add it back in when you realize the difference...Dont limit your confidence and riding ability knowing in the back of your mind what frame you have all those great parts attached to...Time to step up the game my friend on at least one bike so you know its not just over priced BS when it comes to a frame.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby Falkon45 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:29 pm

Lol. Well, the full suspension frames are going to be replaced. I planned that from the beginning. But I needed to push them first, to see what they can do. The xr250 did it's job, but it just wasn't quite right (and way too heavy). The blackcomb was to be ridden to destruction. The fact that I now have to make custom parts to achieve the travel required to downhill, kinda leads me straight to the weak point... The head tube. But, I needed to see how strong it was. Was looking for another frame for that, also (remember the aliexpress convos). Now, the hardtails are about where I want them. At this point, I'm only wanting to go lighter on one bike. Other than that, I'm pretty sure those can take what I throw at them, as they don't see really rough terrain.

I can't attest to saying that these frames are just as good, as I've not done the testing, or had them tested. Until I see one of these BBB frames go through the same testing the high end frames go through, with results, I can't say they just won't make it.

But, another thing to remember, is that most of these aren't built for anything more than XC riding. Take a high end XC bike on FR or Enduro, and you should expect that to break just like the BBB. There just isn't enough data to support that these frames aren't as good, other than hearsay and something based off of a few accidents.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby 6sharky9 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:44 pm

A chevy camaro and a corvette will both get you the store and back but its not hard to determine the corvette is a much more advanced vehicle.

Thats one of my points about the frame testing or quality control...BBB frames dont go through the rigorous testing the top brands go through before deemed acceptable for sale....They have a frame stress test that attaches to both ends of the frame and a machine twists and pulls on them untill they break..based on the amount of time or amount of pressure it took to break it determines the strength a frame...BBB frames wouldnt pass half the stress test of a top frame maker...BBB frames also dont use Grade A materials..just because it says 6061 aluminum doesnt mean its of the best quality 6061 aluminum...Pacific or kent doesnt sonic test the tubes for a weakness or xray welds to determine if the robot welder is programmed to give you the best weld possible for strength...Alot more to a brand name frame than one might think hence the higher prices.

Another thing bbb frames dont have is research and development or a group of riders who test and push design to its limits and can give feedback into how a design is or isnt working and even try to break the frame if they can....Pretty much top builders rely on those professional riders for feedback to build you and them a better performing bike plus the added quality of construction...Giant is the largest manufacturer of bicycle frames and makes them for ALOT of top name brands as they trust in the quality and want to make a name for themselves...kinesis is the best frame builder in taiwan and can compare to anything giant makes..But the china built bbb and even some higher priced frames im sorry to say are not in any way shape or form the quality of giant or kinesis or a Trek frame or even some big names produced in china, other than a "look a like" and especially with these full suspension bbb bikes.

I just dont want the message here to be that a bbb frame is as good as any other frame made today because that is a false statement...Are they ok for some spirited riding on the easier type trails?..yes they are...Should an experienced "clydesdale" rider who can ride the crap out of a bike buy one instead of a giant or trek or some other top name?...absolutely not.

Nothing wrong with a good used top name brand frame if you have the money to make that your start...Considering what youve spent on components you have the money and parts to build the baddest azz bike on this forum..What are you waiting for?..to be in the ER because you found the limit of a frame deep down you know isnt as good...Poor excuse..lol... and quite frankly will be a hurtful excuse when it eventually happens...I hope it doesnt though.
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Re: Why doesn't the word spread about this forum?

Postby wa_desert_rat » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:06 pm

6sharky9 wrote:I just dont want the message here to be that a bbb frame is as good as any other frame made today because that is a false statement...Are they ok for some spirited riding on the easier type trails?..yes they are...Should an experienced "clydesdale" rider who can ride the crap out of a bike buy one instead of a giant or trek or some other top name?...absolutely not.

Nothing wrong with a good used top name brand frame if you have the money to make that your start...Considering what youve spent on components you have the money and parts to build the baddest azz bike on this forum..What are you waiting for?..to be in the ER because you found the limit of a frame deep down you know isnt as good...Poor excuse..lol... and quite frankly will be a hurtful excuse when it eventually happens...I hope it doesnt though.

This forum is read by a lot of new riders and returning riders who have been away from cycling for a long time. I don't want the message here to be like the message they get on so many other MTB forums: that if they want to be a real bike rider they need to buy a top brand bicycle. I know you're addressing Falkon but remember that this is a hobby and everyone approaches it differently. His approach isn't the same as yours (or even mine) but that doesn't mean that it's not the right one for him.

As far as used bicycle parts are concerned, there have been a lot of posts here about craigslist ads featuring rebranded big box bikes posing as name brands at inflated prices. Since manu MTB forums seem to like to guide new riders towards used bikes before they try big box bikes when they have little of the sophistication needed to decide which used bicycle parts are appropriate, I'd like to not get that out there here, either.

I agree that you can buy some great bikes on craigslist. But I would prefer the focus remain on being able to discern a decent, upgradable and affordable big box bike that riders can get a lot of use out of without breaking their budget; along with decent warranties. Heck, I'll be that guy in the video who broke his BBB could probably get a replacement for free; especially if he got an extended warranty when he bought it. :P

I really like having people on this forum who like to upgrade their big box bikes and make them something special for them. You're one of those people and I appreciate having you here. I just think that mixed messages are confusing. No newbie should be riding the Red Bull desert classics on a big box bike. But pushing themselves is not a bad idea, either. Most of us crash and most of us avid the ER; no matter what brand of bike we ride.
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